The biology for this is plausible at an elevator pitch level.
Binding to the nsp5 / 3C-Like protease just pauses the virus's work within cells. This occurs after the polyprotein is formed but before nsp5 has chopped it up into little parts (including more nsp5's). So by pausing matters here, it's just a matter of what has a higher half-life in the body/cells - the drug, or the RNA and un-processed polyproteins of the virus? Presumably the polyproteins will still be cleaved at a lower rate by endogenous proteases that are expressed (*edit, actually by auto-cleavage; revised version of the mechanism here https://unglossed.substack.com/p/unfinished-business). This releases fresh nsp5. Viral replication takes off a little bit behind of where it left off (minus some degraded RNA). So the drug has to be taken for longer (until all the RNA is broken down) or forever, who knows.
All antiviral treatments that attack the processes of viral replication are subject to these types of paradoxes, because viruses replicate using the same processes our cells use to do everyday work.
My caveats would be that I'm always a little skeptical that drugs actually do what they promise on a molecular level most times to begin with, and I haven't researched Paxlovid very much.
Brian M's comment above says "pinned" and if you pass your mouse over it it says "Pinned by Igor Chudov" but wouldn't it be nice if it said that all the time in "green."
Just a suggestion they might take seriously from you, Igor, our dear friend.
PS. This is an outstanding discussion, one of the best.
I wonder if Paxlovid is especially dangerous for those who have a deficient P450 enzyme, CYP3A4 *22 allele. This means that their body can only produce reduced amounts of this enzyme which is used to process about 50% of all medications, as well as some foods. To inhibit this enzyme, already genetically reduced in those carrying this allele, would make it nearly impossible to metabolize many other pharmaceuticals - any other meds taken would have unusually high side effects and could accumulate (AUC) to toxic levels. Most people would not know that they carry this allele unless they have been tested or are aware that they cannot take many meds at normal dosages.
In general that is likely to alter the half-life of the drug, which may be beneficial of the therapeutic concentration can be maintained for longer. However, there is the risk of cytotoxicity as well of which I am not sure of any cytotoxic studies of PAXLOVID.
I saw a video recently of an interview with Dr Pierre Kory, & he mentioned the craziness of handing out a drug like Paxlovid instead of ivermectin because of its toxicity..He also said because of Paxlovid's interactions with so many medications that people take-it was dangerous. He named off some of the meds, but he said it's toxic. Kory starts talking about it at 39:55.
I wonder if doctors are even looking at that list? Here in CT they have a test to treat protocol where health care professionals are giving out prescriptions without proper screening.
They just approved Remdesivir for younger ages. This feels like dangerously mentally deficient people trying to exert control over intellectually rigorous people, the opposite of Plato's concept of philosopher kings, or what Jonathan Swift wrote about in the 1700s.
Most docs may not care since the CDC, Biden et al have said yes and the docs are shielded from liability by the PREP Act since paxlovid is a 'countermeasure'.
Perhaps, but it could also be a redundant hazard since the whole point of including Ritonavir is to kneecap P450 activity, so the amplification of other medications could apply to anyone.
So that usually occurs with protease inhibitors that bind through electrostatic interactions. Protease inhibitors tend to serve as competitive inhibitors- they must compete with the actual substrate for binding and thus require a high concentration of the drug- it's why the protease inhibitor is paired with the P450 Enzyme Inhibitor.
However, it appears that PAXLOVID's protease inhibitor may not just bind electrostatically, but may form a reversible covalent bond, and thus may have greater inhibitory effects. However, these effects were only indicated in in silico studies.
I may write about different targeting points, but antivirals must be viewed from the perspective of upstream or downstream inhibition with respect to Gene Theory (Genome -> mRNA -> protein).
By "that" do you mean reversable binding? I'm more pointing out that there are still going to be other endogenous proteases expressed in cells that will cleave the polyprotein and release fresh, unbound nsp5's. So the polyproteins (which are implied to be left over by the mechanism of the drug, ie it stops nsp5 from chopping polyproteins) act as a reservoir of future nsp5's that kick back into action after the coast is clear. Virus finishes what it started in the cell and there's still not enough local T Cells to stop things since the drug didn't let conditions progress to the natural end-point (even if previous natural infection or vaxx-induced antibodies are protecting against viremia, there is still the problem of Omicron having a preference for the upper airway where there won't be a lot of resident memory T Cells).
Ivermectin has a smorgasbord of putative mechanisms against SARS-CoV-2, so any issue with a protease inhibitor doesn't automatically implicate ivermectin, I would say.
Or it could be an issue with the Covid vaccines suppressing the innate immune system; this could exacerbate the impact of leaving a reservoir (whereas for a strong innate immune system, viral regression would be suppressed by NK cells etc). So there could be less risk for the unvaccinated in general. Personally I do have some of the same reservations about not letting things get to the natural "end point," potentially resulting in a less potent memory immune response, but for some folks it's still probably better to help the immune system out.
Alternately, maybe Omicron (BA.1 and BA.2) coincidentally (or intentionally) have some pre-packaged mutations that make this "polyprotein reservoir" action work better, like by making the polyprotein more promiscuous for endogenous proteases. Both siblings have a ton of Orf1 mutations, and Orf1 is the polyprotein. This could be why ivermectin was downgraded by the FLCCC for Omicron. A billion things are possible.
Okay, thanks. IVM worked wonders for my wife in Dec, taking down temp in a matter of hours. But it is possible that she had Delta and not Omicron. I am highly suspicious of Omicron and its supposed "mildness".
I recently destroyed Covid with a course of Hydroxy... done and dusted in two days.
Question - if Hydroxy and IVM are so effective at crushing this coronavirus -- why has no one thought to use these two drugs to treat ALL corona - and other similar viruses?
Surely they must be just as effective at treating the common cold or flu?
Right, and this was especially an obvious flaw in the proposed "Save the World" plan of everyone on Earth taking it prophylactically, we would have been putting escape pressure on the virus. However, since Omicron doesn't seem to have evolved from circulating strains I don't think we should attribute real-world pressure to whatever changes it brings to treatment efficacy. Also maybe Omicron just doesn't cause severe outcomes enough to measure a benefit anymore.
Here is the edited version "Ivermectin2: 0.4–0.6 mg/kg per dose (take with or after a meal) — one dose daily, take for 5 days or until recovered. Use upper dose if: 1) in regions with aggressive variants (e.g. Delta); 2) treatment started on or after day 5 of symptoms or in pulmonary phase; or 3) multiple comorbidities/risk factors.
Just what I was wondering. Just getting over a horrible "cold", tested negative well into it, turned corner when I started therapeutic dose of ivm etc. Unvaxxed. Was fearing the idea that ivm could crap out the same way as Paxlovid. (I hate these dipshit pharma names for their snake oil.)
Yes, apologies for misreading your post. I suppose it comes down to who can play the "waiting game" the longest. However, that would be based on how long it takes for both the protease inhibitor and the P450 inhibitor to clear out. It also comes down to viral load as well, which may have been greatly damaged by Omicron such that high viral load may occur far to quickly for PAXLOVID to serve as a proper "early" treatment- again the treatment needing to fit the disease/pathogen.
To add onto that, I suppose that we have never really utilized protease inhibitors alone, or with such a short treatment window so that may also be a downfall of the current treatment regimens.
Actually, that shouldn't lead to drug resistance. If the proteases being produced are of the same amino acid structure that would not be an indication of mutation, and also I would argue that protein expression is downstream of mutations and thus does not put mutation pressure on the virus. PAXLOVID's protease inhibitor's covalent binding also utilizes vital amino acid structures needed to cleave the virus' proteins. Therefore, the virus cannot mutate away from PAXLOVID without completely removing the proteases functions.
Paxlovid on any scale (cell, patient, human species) can be thought of as creating a genetic bottleneck for whichever mutant-nsp5 designs thwart the binding of the drug without making nsp5 nonfunctional, so you get to escape pretty easily. Even if said designs partially impair nsp5 function by altering preferred cleavage site motif, for example, the virus would be in an accelerated mutation environment at that point (mutations that modified cleavage sites to match the new preferred motif would have a strong fitness advantage and would rapidly accumulate until clonal interference became dominate again).
That would generally be true of protease inhibitors that function through competitive inhibition and electrostatic interactions. However, if PAXLOVID's possible MoA is to be believed it's covalent bonding targets a pivotal cysteine residue that is used to chop up proteins. If this MoA is to be believed then there's really no way for a mutant form of the protease to be considered functional without this cysteine residue being available- any mutation away from PAXLOVID will become extremely deleterious to both the enzyme and the virus.
Could there be an interaction with vaccine immunity? Ordinarily the antiviral will slow down replication, but there'll still be proteins on the membrane signalling to the immune system to destroy the infected cell -- the antiviral will allow the immune system to control an infection that might otherwise escalate.
However, if the vaccines introduce an immune tolerance to the virus then you'll get the observed results -- the infection is controlled by the anti-viral but infected cells aren't cleared and the infection can continue once the anti-virals are stopped.
Above, I speculated "Covid vaccines suppressing the innate immune system," but tolerance could be playing a roll. It depends on whether spike is already being MHC-presented, and/or whether it is dominant, when the nsp5-block takes effect. To a certain extent it's axiomatic that the block / pause occurs when the virus still needs more Orf1 polyproteins to be cleaved (otherwise the drug wouldn't affect replication at all), which is why it's safe for me to assume there are still un-cleaved "future" nsp5's. This "needs more cleaved Orf1" moment may occur before there is much/any subgenomic mRNA translation in which case, nearby immune cells won't see spike, but just bits of Orf1 nsp's.
The message to Igor about the unvaxxed uncle dropping dead three weeks after finishing his course of Paxlovid, what mechanism could explain that if it's tied to the drug?
Without a positive test, there's no reason to rule out a non-Paxlovid / non-viral-regression -based cause. I'm not sure viral regression would really fit with dropping dead, either, as opposed to days of symptoms / hospitalization first as in a normal infection. But that's all a lot of guess-work.
Is it possible to different efficacies for this drug that are being seen in the vaccinated and unvaccinated it was due to the pseudouridine in the vaccinations suppressing the breakdown of viral mRNA (or RNA), so if there is a five day pause, it's meaningless since none of the viral material gets broken down during the pause period?
As Igor pointed out, symptoms exist for a reason and are not arbitrary accidents without purpose. The tendency to not see the forest for the trees is always a possibility in human thinking, they focus on one thing and don't see how intricate the human body is, they want the function without the consequences. You get your morning caffeine fix and creativity often suffers, it has specific effects on the body that even Gandhi wrote about considering the negatives greater than the advantages in his neglected "Health Guide". In his intro to his book he quoted Milton from Paradise Lost, that the mind can make a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven, then he looks at the specifics of health and nature's role.
I see drugs whether doctor prescribed or recreational as stealing from Peter to pay Paul, with the downside of tinkering with the body often being irrevocable. People become addicted to unnatural things and are unable to serve others which I believe is why we are on earth--to serve others not ourselves only. Drugs impair that.
Sadly, I know someone who got sick with a somewhat mild case of Covid in January, but she was concerned about it worsening due to some co-morbidities and she was in her 50s. She said on FB that her doctor told her that Paxlovid "works better for Omicron," so her husband drove several hundred miles across a few states overnight to get her some Paxlovid because she said she wasn't able to get it in our area and just wanted to be sure that she "threw everything at it" because of her co-morbidities. She initially improved after taking Paxlovid, but then suddenly took a turn for the worse, and just like that shockingly ended up in the hospital on a ventilator and died a week to 10 days later, so this article explains a lot.
Very sorry to hear this. Do you happen to know whether she was vaccinated? Seems like most of these people were. So I'm wondering how much of this may be due to the vax vs the drug? Or a combination of the two?
I'd wondered whether she was perhaps vaccinated myself when I was trying to make sense of her passing, so I scrolled through her previous FB posts for the last year and saw no mention of her getting vaccinated. She was very active in local Republican politics and I know she opposed mandates, so if she got the vax, she didn't publicize it. I was kind of under the impression that she hadn't gotten the vax, thus the "throwing the kitchen sink" at it attitude when it was still a fairly mild case because so many on both sides tend to still get drawn into the common mantra that vaccines protect you from getting sick, although more and more are waking up every day, thankfully, especially after so many vaxxed people got Omicron earlier this year.
Interestingly, she said she was taking several things like NAC, vitamin D, etc, and although she didn't come right out and say it, even hinted that she'd also taken Ivermectin and was just taking the Paxlovid for additional protection, so I thought she'd be fine and was so shocked when she went downhill so quickly and passed. It's almost like the Paxlovid overrode or undid the good of the other things she was taking to help, which certainly got my attention and made me make a mental note to avoid Paxlovid at all costs, just like Run-death-is-near (Remdisivir).
This Omicron virus has a somewhat false reputation of being harmless, it is far from harmless and does delayed damage like your friend had, or perhaps also kills or takes down general immunity. The "science" just does not give a shit and nobody is looking.
I have what I assume is Omicron now. Started Sunday evening. It is worse than what I had back in May 2020. Although I feel better, I’ve got this horrible cough which didn’t develop last time. In 2020, I don’t believe I was exposed for an great length of time. Unfortunately, this time, I caught it from my husband, so the viral load would be higher, I think, as he tends to breathe on me in my sleep. I guess that’s better than his not breathing. But it is concerning that the immunity I had from before seems unable to stave off the illness. I feel like this is a complete do-over. So much for my happy thoughts about natural immunity.
Thank you! I take about 5000 now, but I have a bottle of 10000, so I can easily take more. I take a multivitamin and additional C, D3 and zinc with Quercetin.
A few people in my network reported nasty flu worse than covid this winter, lamenting that their covid test came negative. Everything must be covid if I believe it! As distinct from those who had a little bit of stuffy nose or body aches, which is more like omicron.
This is definitely some Covid thing. I had a positive home test and then in the hope that I messed it up, I had a test at a clinic…that was positive too. I would never lament a negative test! But there does seem to be some sort of “badge of courage” thing going on out there. I saw a post where someone got one of those ”you’ve been exposed” texts from the state (something I’d never sign up for) and he dutifully quarantined, even though he was “a symptomatic.” Then he took a test, and it was, gulp, negative! People can’t even say, apparently I was around someone who was ill, but I feel fine! The lack of illness must be described using terms of illness. Weird. I do have a really gross cough though. I feel like I got Covid and omicron in the wrong order.😆
And avoid hospitals. Ventilators kill, most covid patients don't need them. Do you think she might've been treated badly in the hospital because of being unvxxed? Having such high level of anxiety doesn't help either. If she had co-morbidities, they might've been aggravated by over-medicating.
She followed the CDC protocol to her death. Per society and safety, she did everything right, yet it was all wrong. I wondered what would have happened if she did nothing?
According to Stew Peters, hospitals make you sick with Remdesivir and then finish you off with a ventilator. Finally they collect a governmental bonus for another COVID death.
Not just Stew. I've had nurse friends tell me not to go to the hospital for Covid. And medical kidnappings have been known to occur prior to Covid, mostly on the elderly to milk their estate and/or commit Medicare fraud. It's not uncommon for an elderly person to be (conveniently) diagnosed with dementia, and end up stuck in a hospital for months because they are too incapacitated (by sedatives) to make proper decisions for themselves.
Everyone should have a will with a medical directive clearly outlined!
Thanks for another interesting article. Sorry to hear Twitter blocked you, but as someone at Babylon Bee said, "The only thing better than building a Twitter account with 100k followers is having your account blocked because you spoke the truth." (Or something like that).
Account suspended. Didn't agree with everything he wrote but he did a huge amount of research on the spike and was getting a little too close to the truth it seems. His substack is here:
In my old health handbook, it says fevers (when not severe and long lasting) are an important part of the immune response to viruses. Everyone I know with a corona infection insisted on immediately suppressing their fevers with pharmaceuticals. I tried to argue against this, but apparently letting your immune system do its thing is not recommended anymore.
Basically, we've chosen to ignore everything we once knew about immunology, virology, etc with SARS-Cov2.
I wear those two badges every day, in my heart, at least.
You may think you are not in any online social network, but believe me, the fact that I can see your comment here on this samizdat tells me that you are.
You may not know it yet, but someone has put that badge on you.
Really angry you got banned from Twitter Censorship on Critical Thinking Police. FYI I am happy to tweet whatever you want on Twitter. Censorship goes against my values so Im here if you want anything tweeted. Just tweeted this article.
It's ironic; they have no problem damaging healthy people and patients seeking to recover. So this is a PR stunt for them to deny their drugs for capital crimes.
Rethink it because apparently it's toxic. There's a whole bunch of meds that cannot be taken at all with Paxlovid. Many are meds that middle-aged/ older people are taking. I searched it under University of Michigan Paxlovid drug interactions.. A 7 page PDF. I'll stick with ivermectin. Pierre Kory talks about it being a ridiculous toxic drug to be prescribed
The funny thing is I was considering Paxlovid over HCQ and Ivermectin because both have contraindications that make them (possibly) not ideal for my parents, who have complex health issues. Paxlovid looks like it may be even worse. I discussed options with my father's doctor if either of my parents were ever to get infected, this was after Paxlovid became available, and he flat out said it wasn't available (WRONG!) and they'd have to treat at home or go to the hospital. I had COVID-19 back in January, and though I was comfortable treating myself since I have no underlying health issues or medication interactions to work around, I looked into options available if a doctor were needed. Even if going the online route, it's 2-3 days to even get an appointment with doctors willing to treat with drugs/supplements from the I-MASK+ Protocol. How are we two years into this, and most patients are still left to treat themselves until they're so ill they need to be hospitalized?
I know what you mean.. I personally wouldn't take paxlovid or molnupirivir because they are just too black box/skull & crossbones dangerous for me. When my daughter got bad sick during the delta surge, I thought she was young and healthy enough to get through it. She was out of it with fever, headache, sore throat for 3 days. She didn't take anything. On the 4th day she texted me that she was scared & her lungs were burning. I went to the local farm supply store and bought 🐴 ivermectin. Took it to her as fast as I could & weight measured a dose for her in a snack pack chocolate pudding then left. Within 4-5 hours, she called me...fever broke, headache 90% gone, lungs stopped burning. She was up walking around. She only had fatigue for the next few days. Taste and smell was back after 15 days. I had no idea if the 🐴 1.87% Ivermectin paste would work but it was better than the hospital treatment. She took it 5 days. It worked like a miracle. I was shocked--had faith in it ever since. It works for jab side effects too for the headaches and breathing issues. The only thing I know of ivermectin may interact with is anti-rejection meds for transplants. It truly is a miracle medication. Ivermectin has been studied for killing cancers too.
Thank you, are they more reliable than alldaychemist? I was able to get prescribed Ivermectin when I was infected, but it did take four days. By the time I started taking it, I was already over the worst of my symptoms.
I think they are both owned by the same company/people.. If you live in the US you could get a prescription from a Dr online...like Dr. Syed Haider. If you have a compound pharmacy that'd fill it. The flccc alliance have a list of Drs and pharmacies in the states on their website.
I would need to look deep into the mechanisms, but if this is allowing the virus to still enter cells, and just stop working inside them, you know exactly what I think. The virus will start doing the weird "apoptosis roulette" and causing low grand long term inflammation. Great one 👍🏻
Thank you for reading reddit and twitter so we don't have to.
How long until someone earnestly argues that a "quick and thick" positive on a lateral flow test while on paxlovid means it's working?
As an aside, I was always troubled by the fact that antivirals for flu treatment require early treatment, but doctors are dissuaded from treating flu at all except for the seriously immunocompromised. What I failed to realize is that the approved antivirals might not work (to put it mildly). It's as if the whole market for these compounds was to get govts to stockpile them, not to treat people.
Made me laugh your banned off twitter today, as I was yesterday, truth hurts doesn't it.
It's the same with molnupiravir. When you look into its history and find that is mutagenic. Yet repurposed and EUA. Everything they do to help, actually increases the risk.
The biology for this is plausible at an elevator pitch level.
Binding to the nsp5 / 3C-Like protease just pauses the virus's work within cells. This occurs after the polyprotein is formed but before nsp5 has chopped it up into little parts (including more nsp5's). So by pausing matters here, it's just a matter of what has a higher half-life in the body/cells - the drug, or the RNA and un-processed polyproteins of the virus? Presumably the polyproteins will still be cleaved at a lower rate by endogenous proteases that are expressed (*edit, actually by auto-cleavage; revised version of the mechanism here https://unglossed.substack.com/p/unfinished-business). This releases fresh nsp5. Viral replication takes off a little bit behind of where it left off (minus some degraded RNA). So the drug has to be taken for longer (until all the RNA is broken down) or forever, who knows.
All antiviral treatments that attack the processes of viral replication are subject to these types of paradoxes, because viruses replicate using the same processes our cells use to do everyday work.
My caveats would be that I'm always a little skeptical that drugs actually do what they promise on a molecular level most times to begin with, and I haven't researched Paxlovid very much.
I will pin your comment
Brian M's comment above says "pinned" and if you pass your mouse over it it says "Pinned by Igor Chudov" but wouldn't it be nice if it said that all the time in "green."
Just a suggestion they might take seriously from you, Igor, our dear friend.
PS. This is an outstanding discussion, one of the best.
MORE LIKE THIS
I also love this discussion.
I wonder if Paxlovid is especially dangerous for those who have a deficient P450 enzyme, CYP3A4 *22 allele. This means that their body can only produce reduced amounts of this enzyme which is used to process about 50% of all medications, as well as some foods. To inhibit this enzyme, already genetically reduced in those carrying this allele, would make it nearly impossible to metabolize many other pharmaceuticals - any other meds taken would have unusually high side effects and could accumulate (AUC) to toxic levels. Most people would not know that they carry this allele unless they have been tested or are aware that they cannot take many meds at normal dosages.
In general that is likely to alter the half-life of the drug, which may be beneficial of the therapeutic concentration can be maintained for longer. However, there is the risk of cytotoxicity as well of which I am not sure of any cytotoxic studies of PAXLOVID.
I saw a video recently of an interview with Dr Pierre Kory, & he mentioned the craziness of handing out a drug like Paxlovid instead of ivermectin because of its toxicity..He also said because of Paxlovid's interactions with so many medications that people take-it was dangerous. He named off some of the meds, but he said it's toxic. Kory starts talking about it at 39:55.
https://rumble.com/v114ptp-here-i-am-lord-i-come-to-do-your-will-an-interview-with-dr-pierre-kory.html
Whoa, crazy! Here's the paxlovid drug to drug interaction list that he mentioned. It's quite long.
https://www.med.umich.edu/asp/pdf/outpatient_guidelines/Paxlovid-DDI.pdf
I wonder if doctors are even looking at that list? Here in CT they have a test to treat protocol where health care professionals are giving out prescriptions without proper screening.
They just approved Remdesivir for younger ages. This feels like dangerously mentally deficient people trying to exert control over intellectually rigorous people, the opposite of Plato's concept of philosopher kings, or what Jonathan Swift wrote about in the 1700s.
Most docs may not care since the CDC, Biden et al have said yes and the docs are shielded from liability by the PREP Act since paxlovid is a 'countermeasure'.
Perhaps, but it could also be a redundant hazard since the whole point of including Ritonavir is to kneecap P450 activity, so the amplification of other medications could apply to anyone.
So that usually occurs with protease inhibitors that bind through electrostatic interactions. Protease inhibitors tend to serve as competitive inhibitors- they must compete with the actual substrate for binding and thus require a high concentration of the drug- it's why the protease inhibitor is paired with the P450 Enzyme Inhibitor.
However, it appears that PAXLOVID's protease inhibitor may not just bind electrostatically, but may form a reversible covalent bond, and thus may have greater inhibitory effects. However, these effects were only indicated in in silico studies.
I may write about different targeting points, but antivirals must be viewed from the perspective of upstream or downstream inhibition with respect to Gene Theory (Genome -> mRNA -> protein).
By "that" do you mean reversable binding? I'm more pointing out that there are still going to be other endogenous proteases expressed in cells that will cleave the polyprotein and release fresh, unbound nsp5's. So the polyproteins (which are implied to be left over by the mechanism of the drug, ie it stops nsp5 from chopping polyproteins) act as a reservoir of future nsp5's that kick back into action after the coast is clear. Virus finishes what it started in the cell and there's still not enough local T Cells to stop things since the drug didn't let conditions progress to the natural end-point (even if previous natural infection or vaxx-induced antibodies are protecting against viremia, there is still the problem of Omicron having a preference for the upper airway where there won't be a lot of resident memory T Cells).
Can you compare this to Ivermectin, which is also a protease inhibitor? Thanks
Ivermectin has a smorgasbord of putative mechanisms against SARS-CoV-2, so any issue with a protease inhibitor doesn't automatically implicate ivermectin, I would say.
Or it could be an issue with the Covid vaccines suppressing the innate immune system; this could exacerbate the impact of leaving a reservoir (whereas for a strong innate immune system, viral regression would be suppressed by NK cells etc). So there could be less risk for the unvaccinated in general. Personally I do have some of the same reservations about not letting things get to the natural "end point," potentially resulting in a less potent memory immune response, but for some folks it's still probably better to help the immune system out.
Alternately, maybe Omicron (BA.1 and BA.2) coincidentally (or intentionally) have some pre-packaged mutations that make this "polyprotein reservoir" action work better, like by making the polyprotein more promiscuous for endogenous proteases. Both siblings have a ton of Orf1 mutations, and Orf1 is the polyprotein. This could be why ivermectin was downgraded by the FLCCC for Omicron. A billion things are possible.
Okay, thanks. IVM worked wonders for my wife in Dec, taking down temp in a matter of hours. But it is possible that she had Delta and not Omicron. I am highly suspicious of Omicron and its supposed "mildness".
I recently destroyed Covid with a course of Hydroxy... done and dusted in two days.
Question - if Hydroxy and IVM are so effective at crushing this coronavirus -- why has no one thought to use these two drugs to treat ALL corona - and other similar viruses?
Surely they must be just as effective at treating the common cold or flu?
No $$ for big pharma.. Ivermectin has even been shown to kill cancers & other RNA viruses
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-z
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043661820315152
Right, and this was especially an obvious flaw in the proposed "Save the World" plan of everyone on Earth taking it prophylactically, we would have been putting escape pressure on the virus. However, since Omicron doesn't seem to have evolved from circulating strains I don't think we should attribute real-world pressure to whatever changes it brings to treatment efficacy. Also maybe Omicron just doesn't cause severe outcomes enough to measure a benefit anymore.
Here is the edited version "Ivermectin2: 0.4–0.6 mg/kg per dose (take with or after a meal) — one dose daily, take for 5 days or until recovered. Use upper dose if: 1) in regions with aggressive variants (e.g. Delta); 2) treatment started on or after day 5 of symptoms or in pulmonary phase; or 3) multiple comorbidities/risk factors.
and/or Hydroxychloroquine (preferred for Omicron): 200 mg PO twice daily; take for 5 days or until recovered." https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/FLCCC-Alliance-I-MASKplus-Protocol-ENGLISH.pdf
Just what I was wondering. Just getting over a horrible "cold", tested negative well into it, turned corner when I started therapeutic dose of ivm etc. Unvaxxed. Was fearing the idea that ivm could crap out the same way as Paxlovid. (I hate these dipshit pharma names for their snake oil.)
Yes, apologies for misreading your post. I suppose it comes down to who can play the "waiting game" the longest. However, that would be based on how long it takes for both the protease inhibitor and the P450 inhibitor to clear out. It also comes down to viral load as well, which may have been greatly damaged by Omicron such that high viral load may occur far to quickly for PAXLOVID to serve as a proper "early" treatment- again the treatment needing to fit the disease/pathogen.
To add onto that, I suppose that we have never really utilized protease inhibitors alone, or with such a short treatment window so that may also be a downfall of the current treatment regimens.
Actually, that shouldn't lead to drug resistance. If the proteases being produced are of the same amino acid structure that would not be an indication of mutation, and also I would argue that protein expression is downstream of mutations and thus does not put mutation pressure on the virus. PAXLOVID's protease inhibitor's covalent binding also utilizes vital amino acid structures needed to cleave the virus' proteins. Therefore, the virus cannot mutate away from PAXLOVID without completely removing the proteases functions.
Paxlovid on any scale (cell, patient, human species) can be thought of as creating a genetic bottleneck for whichever mutant-nsp5 designs thwart the binding of the drug without making nsp5 nonfunctional, so you get to escape pretty easily. Even if said designs partially impair nsp5 function by altering preferred cleavage site motif, for example, the virus would be in an accelerated mutation environment at that point (mutations that modified cleavage sites to match the new preferred motif would have a strong fitness advantage and would rapidly accumulate until clonal interference became dominate again).
That would generally be true of protease inhibitors that function through competitive inhibition and electrostatic interactions. However, if PAXLOVID's possible MoA is to be believed it's covalent bonding targets a pivotal cysteine residue that is used to chop up proteins. If this MoA is to be believed then there's really no way for a mutant form of the protease to be considered functional without this cysteine residue being available- any mutation away from PAXLOVID will become extremely deleterious to both the enzyme and the virus.
The ones the virus uses is its owns. We would actually experience A LOT of side effects if it targeted our own since it's likely to not be selective.
Could there be an interaction with vaccine immunity? Ordinarily the antiviral will slow down replication, but there'll still be proteins on the membrane signalling to the immune system to destroy the infected cell -- the antiviral will allow the immune system to control an infection that might otherwise escalate.
However, if the vaccines introduce an immune tolerance to the virus then you'll get the observed results -- the infection is controlled by the anti-viral but infected cells aren't cleared and the infection can continue once the anti-virals are stopped.
Above, I speculated "Covid vaccines suppressing the innate immune system," but tolerance could be playing a roll. It depends on whether spike is already being MHC-presented, and/or whether it is dominant, when the nsp5-block takes effect. To a certain extent it's axiomatic that the block / pause occurs when the virus still needs more Orf1 polyproteins to be cleaved (otherwise the drug wouldn't affect replication at all), which is why it's safe for me to assume there are still un-cleaved "future" nsp5's. This "needs more cleaved Orf1" moment may occur before there is much/any subgenomic mRNA translation in which case, nearby immune cells won't see spike, but just bits of Orf1 nsp's.
The message to Igor about the unvaxxed uncle dropping dead three weeks after finishing his course of Paxlovid, what mechanism could explain that if it's tied to the drug?
Without a positive test, there's no reason to rule out a non-Paxlovid / non-viral-regression -based cause. I'm not sure viral regression would really fit with dropping dead, either, as opposed to days of symptoms / hospitalization first as in a normal infection. But that's all a lot of guess-work.
Is it possible to different efficacies for this drug that are being seen in the vaccinated and unvaccinated it was due to the pseudouridine in the vaccinations suppressing the breakdown of viral mRNA (or RNA), so if there is a five day pause, it's meaningless since none of the viral material gets broken down during the pause period?
Wow! What a great detailed explanation.
As Igor pointed out, symptoms exist for a reason and are not arbitrary accidents without purpose. The tendency to not see the forest for the trees is always a possibility in human thinking, they focus on one thing and don't see how intricate the human body is, they want the function without the consequences. You get your morning caffeine fix and creativity often suffers, it has specific effects on the body that even Gandhi wrote about considering the negatives greater than the advantages in his neglected "Health Guide". In his intro to his book he quoted Milton from Paradise Lost, that the mind can make a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven, then he looks at the specifics of health and nature's role.
I see drugs whether doctor prescribed or recreational as stealing from Peter to pay Paul, with the downside of tinkering with the body often being irrevocable. People become addicted to unnatural things and are unable to serve others which I believe is why we are on earth--to serve others not ourselves only. Drugs impair that.
Really good idea, suggest a PCR but try rapid also
Keep us posted please! Obviously protect your friend's privacy though, no names, change age by a year or two etc
The theme of the week is...SNAKE PRODUCTS.
Brought to you by the "Hissy Fit Corporation" LOL
Nice...:)
Sadly, I know someone who got sick with a somewhat mild case of Covid in January, but she was concerned about it worsening due to some co-morbidities and she was in her 50s. She said on FB that her doctor told her that Paxlovid "works better for Omicron," so her husband drove several hundred miles across a few states overnight to get her some Paxlovid because she said she wasn't able to get it in our area and just wanted to be sure that she "threw everything at it" because of her co-morbidities. She initially improved after taking Paxlovid, but then suddenly took a turn for the worse, and just like that shockingly ended up in the hospital on a ventilator and died a week to 10 days later, so this article explains a lot.
This is so sad, and goes along with the pattern.
Very sorry to hear this. Do you happen to know whether she was vaccinated? Seems like most of these people were. So I'm wondering how much of this may be due to the vax vs the drug? Or a combination of the two?
I'd wondered whether she was perhaps vaccinated myself when I was trying to make sense of her passing, so I scrolled through her previous FB posts for the last year and saw no mention of her getting vaccinated. She was very active in local Republican politics and I know she opposed mandates, so if she got the vax, she didn't publicize it. I was kind of under the impression that she hadn't gotten the vax, thus the "throwing the kitchen sink" at it attitude when it was still a fairly mild case because so many on both sides tend to still get drawn into the common mantra that vaccines protect you from getting sick, although more and more are waking up every day, thankfully, especially after so many vaxxed people got Omicron earlier this year.
Interestingly, she said she was taking several things like NAC, vitamin D, etc, and although she didn't come right out and say it, even hinted that she'd also taken Ivermectin and was just taking the Paxlovid for additional protection, so I thought she'd be fine and was so shocked when she went downhill so quickly and passed. It's almost like the Paxlovid overrode or undid the good of the other things she was taking to help, which certainly got my attention and made me make a mental note to avoid Paxlovid at all costs, just like Run-death-is-near (Remdisivir).
This Omicron virus has a somewhat false reputation of being harmless, it is far from harmless and does delayed damage like your friend had, or perhaps also kills or takes down general immunity. The "science" just does not give a shit and nobody is looking.
I have what I assume is Omicron now. Started Sunday evening. It is worse than what I had back in May 2020. Although I feel better, I’ve got this horrible cough which didn’t develop last time. In 2020, I don’t believe I was exposed for an great length of time. Unfortunately, this time, I caught it from my husband, so the viral load would be higher, I think, as he tends to breathe on me in my sleep. I guess that’s better than his not breathing. But it is concerning that the immunity I had from before seems unable to stave off the illness. I feel like this is a complete do-over. So much for my happy thoughts about natural immunity.
Connie, get well soon! You are taking vitamins at least, right? Like 10000 IU of D3 at least? Wishing you a quick recovery
Thank you! I take about 5000 now, but I have a bottle of 10000, so I can easily take more. I take a multivitamin and additional C, D3 and zinc with Quercetin.
remember D3 with K2 metagenics has a good one you can get on amazon
A few people in my network reported nasty flu worse than covid this winter, lamenting that their covid test came negative. Everything must be covid if I believe it! As distinct from those who had a little bit of stuffy nose or body aches, which is more like omicron.
This is definitely some Covid thing. I had a positive home test and then in the hope that I messed it up, I had a test at a clinic…that was positive too. I would never lament a negative test! But there does seem to be some sort of “badge of courage” thing going on out there. I saw a post where someone got one of those ”you’ve been exposed” texts from the state (something I’d never sign up for) and he dutifully quarantined, even though he was “a symptomatic.” Then he took a test, and it was, gulp, negative! People can’t even say, apparently I was around someone who was ill, but I feel fine! The lack of illness must be described using terms of illness. Weird. I do have a really gross cough though. I feel like I got Covid and omicron in the wrong order.😆
And avoid hospitals. Ventilators kill, most covid patients don't need them. Do you think she might've been treated badly in the hospital because of being unvxxed? Having such high level of anxiety doesn't help either. If she had co-morbidities, they might've been aggravated by over-medicating.
“Run-death-is-near (Remdisivir).”
😄
I truly feel sorry for her husband who'll live for the rest of his life knowing his heroic efforts were in vain.
She followed the CDC protocol to her death. Per society and safety, she did everything right, yet it was all wrong. I wondered what would have happened if she did nothing?
According to Stew Peters, hospitals make you sick with Remdesivir and then finish you off with a ventilator. Finally they collect a governmental bonus for another COVID death.
Not just Stew. I've had nurse friends tell me not to go to the hospital for Covid. And medical kidnappings have been known to occur prior to Covid, mostly on the elderly to milk their estate and/or commit Medicare fraud. It's not uncommon for an elderly person to be (conveniently) diagnosed with dementia, and end up stuck in a hospital for months because they are too incapacitated (by sedatives) to make proper decisions for themselves.
Everyone should have a will with a medical directive clearly outlined!
I followed those stories before Covid, what is happening is outright frightening.
All true
Thanks for another interesting article. Sorry to hear Twitter blocked you, but as someone at Babylon Bee said, "The only thing better than building a Twitter account with 100k followers is having your account blocked because you spoke the truth." (Or something like that).
Walter Chestnut (@Parsifaler) nuked on Twitter within the last few hours...
https://twitter.com/Parsifaler
Account suspended. Didn't agree with everything he wrote but he did a huge amount of research on the spike and was getting a little too close to the truth it seems. His substack is here:
https://wmcresearch.substack.com/
So sad this needs repeating:
"Just to remind everyone, we have “symptoms”, such as fever, because our immune system is working to counter the infection and kill off the pathogen.
Having no symptoms and no infection is a good thing. Having no symptoms and an ongoing, contagious Covid infection is a bad thing."
In my old health handbook, it says fevers (when not severe and long lasting) are an important part of the immune response to viruses. Everyone I know with a corona infection insisted on immediately suppressing their fevers with pharmaceuticals. I tried to argue against this, but apparently letting your immune system do its thing is not recommended anymore.
Basically, we've chosen to ignore everything we once knew about immunology, virology, etc with SARS-Cov2.
Seems the creation of asymptomatic spreaders is the common theme among all of their big ideas. Almost as if it’s by design.
Was just thinking that!
Blocked on twitter?
You must be telling the truth.
I have an idea,
Let's organize a competition to design two badges:
1 for those censored by the mediatic clergy,
1 for those who reject transgenic injections.
I'll be proudly wearing the second one only since I never had a social network account in the first place.
I wear those two badges every day, in my heart, at least.
You may think you are not in any online social network, but believe me, the fact that I can see your comment here on this samizdat tells me that you are.
You may not know it yet, but someone has put that badge on you.
Yep, badge of honor
Really angry you got banned from Twitter Censorship on Critical Thinking Police. FYI I am happy to tweet whatever you want on Twitter. Censorship goes against my values so Im here if you want anything tweeted. Just tweeted this article.
Thank you!!!
The Medical Mafia in Action - Offering Isotropic Humanicide Services Worldwide
.
AMA = American Murder Association
CDC = Center for Death and Corruption
DIC = Drugs Industrial Complex
DHS = Defense for Humanicide Services
FDA = Fraud and Death Association
HHS = Holistic Humanicide Services
MD = Most Deplored
NIAID = Novel Inquisition for Allergic and Infectious Dogmas
NIH = Nihilism In Healthcare
NSFW = Not Safe For Work
WHO = William Henry (III)'s Omnipotence
Dr. Red Pill Fact Check:
Glendale Adventist Hospital
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/vax-injured-person-gets-appalling?s=r
These people deserve the credit for the deaths of nearly a million Americans
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/these-people-deserve-the-credit-for?s=r
70% of Americans are on at least one prescription drug.
The sicker America is, the richer the Drugs Industrial Complex (DIC)
No curing is allowed, ever. Treating symptoms assures recurring revenues.
Natural healing methods are relegated to Quackery.
An empire of Lies, Corruption, Degeneracy, and Death run by a Covidian Cult.
NB: You’re free to post the above text anywhere free speech is tolerated.
And strangely drug makers refuse to permit their drugs to be used for lethal injection.
Because the death so induced would be too slow and agonizing for the condemned inmate. They'd be accused of torture: cruel and inhuman punishment.
It's ironic; they have no problem damaging healthy people and patients seeking to recover. So this is a PR stunt for them to deny their drugs for capital crimes.
Never take a new-to-market drug. Never.
I was planning on using Paxlovid if my parents became infected, Peter McCollough has said good things about it. Definitely rethinking that now.
Rethink it because apparently it's toxic. There's a whole bunch of meds that cannot be taken at all with Paxlovid. Many are meds that middle-aged/ older people are taking. I searched it under University of Michigan Paxlovid drug interactions.. A 7 page PDF. I'll stick with ivermectin. Pierre Kory talks about it being a ridiculous toxic drug to be prescribed
The funny thing is I was considering Paxlovid over HCQ and Ivermectin because both have contraindications that make them (possibly) not ideal for my parents, who have complex health issues. Paxlovid looks like it may be even worse. I discussed options with my father's doctor if either of my parents were ever to get infected, this was after Paxlovid became available, and he flat out said it wasn't available (WRONG!) and they'd have to treat at home or go to the hospital. I had COVID-19 back in January, and though I was comfortable treating myself since I have no underlying health issues or medication interactions to work around, I looked into options available if a doctor were needed. Even if going the online route, it's 2-3 days to even get an appointment with doctors willing to treat with drugs/supplements from the I-MASK+ Protocol. How are we two years into this, and most patients are still left to treat themselves until they're so ill they need to be hospitalized?
I know what you mean.. I personally wouldn't take paxlovid or molnupirivir because they are just too black box/skull & crossbones dangerous for me. When my daughter got bad sick during the delta surge, I thought she was young and healthy enough to get through it. She was out of it with fever, headache, sore throat for 3 days. She didn't take anything. On the 4th day she texted me that she was scared & her lungs were burning. I went to the local farm supply store and bought 🐴 ivermectin. Took it to her as fast as I could & weight measured a dose for her in a snack pack chocolate pudding then left. Within 4-5 hours, she called me...fever broke, headache 90% gone, lungs stopped burning. She was up walking around. She only had fatigue for the next few days. Taste and smell was back after 15 days. I had no idea if the 🐴 1.87% Ivermectin paste would work but it was better than the hospital treatment. She took it 5 days. It worked like a miracle. I was shocked--had faith in it ever since. It works for jab side effects too for the headaches and breathing issues. The only thing I know of ivermectin may interact with is anti-rejection meds for transplants. It truly is a miracle medication. Ivermectin has been studied for killing cancers too.
I'd order it to keep on hand. Don't need a prescription. Where it says Rx you don't put anything.
https://www.reliablerxpharmacy.com/ivermectin-6mg-austro.html
Thank you, are they more reliable than alldaychemist? I was able to get prescribed Ivermectin when I was infected, but it did take four days. By the time I started taking it, I was already over the worst of my symptoms.
I think they are both owned by the same company/people.. If you live in the US you could get a prescription from a Dr online...like Dr. Syed Haider. If you have a compound pharmacy that'd fill it. The flccc alliance have a list of Drs and pharmacies in the states on their website.
Peter also says flu vaccines are important for everyone to take. And that they work.
He's out of his mind.
Do you have an interview where he's discussed that? I've never seen him mention it.
Fantastic Advice!
For 40 years I did my best to avoid even prescribing the flavour of the year. This was either an indication of caution, or sloth.
I would need to look deep into the mechanisms, but if this is allowing the virus to still enter cells, and just stop working inside them, you know exactly what I think. The virus will start doing the weird "apoptosis roulette" and causing low grand long term inflammation. Great one 👍🏻
Sigh... humans in their quest to never die or feel sick will take any drug under the sun. As a result, they never live.
Gold💥💥💥
Thank you for reading reddit and twitter so we don't have to.
How long until someone earnestly argues that a "quick and thick" positive on a lateral flow test while on paxlovid means it's working?
As an aside, I was always troubled by the fact that antivirals for flu treatment require early treatment, but doctors are dissuaded from treating flu at all except for the seriously immunocompromised. What I failed to realize is that the approved antivirals might not work (to put it mildly). It's as if the whole market for these compounds was to get govts to stockpile them, not to treat people.
Read RFK Jr's the Real Anthony Fauci for the background on the stockpiles
Made me laugh your banned off twitter today, as I was yesterday, truth hurts doesn't it.
It's the same with molnupiravir. When you look into its history and find that is mutagenic. Yet repurposed and EUA. Everything they do to help, actually increases the risk.
Keep up the excellent work Igir💪
"blocked by Twitter"
#MeToo
Guess Elon Musk's Twitter stake is like Paxlovid. Censorship symptoms still persist.
The Parag virus needs to be cleared.
He just announced that he wants to buy back all Twitter stocks and take it private.
Just wait and see
unfortunately paxlovid does not suppress curiosity.