Thanks Igor. People are too quick to read the summarized conclusion without actually looking at the data. As Dr Kory said, it’s not just about a RCT. It’s also about population studies, clinical observations etc etc that contributes to the overall understanding of management and therapy.
LOL. He got roasted on his own substack by his own subscribers after the incident on Fox. Now he threw up this study as "proof" and half his subscribers are telling him to "Go see Igor" LMAO.
Those were my exact thoughts also, thanks for sharing yours. For now, I've unsubscribed Mr Alex. I wish him well. And thanks again for sharing your thoughts Legallady4.
I'll reply on behalf of Alex: blah blah blah you are all Ivermectin loving idiots, here is a weirdly framed screenshot, now go ahead and unsubscribe I have lots of money already from my book.
We do get our info from qualified medically skilled scientists. Mr B made broad sweeping declarations implying his view of IVM was a self evident fact?We expect high quality reporting from AB and are questioning his motivation for being so negative re IVM over 1 report he did not properly interpret?
AB has been very negative about Ivermectin for a long time. I keep telling him to debate Dr Kory with Rogan as the moderator. He won't. He knows he'd be out of his league and get crushed.
I've pointed out on a couple of Stacks that have discussed this study that 2/3 of the study pop were vaccinated, and there is no recording of how recent that was in relation to their COVID diagnosis. It's obvious at this point that vaxxing has a huge impact on immune status, so I don't see how this study has any validity with regard to other treatments. But the one thing you could compare is the totally unvaxxed participants. Among those, 1 died in IVM group, 3 in placebo. That's buried in the supplemental tables #6.
Ivermectin worked great for my husband and myself when we got the Delta variant. took it early, still felt crappy, but recovered in a week and no long term issues.
Ivermectin is available OTC in Mexico. Most pharmacies should have it. Ivermectin is available in vending machines in Mexican airports.The Mexican government has been giving out free Ivermectin.
There are no Covid related restrictions to enter Mexico.
I want to share where I bought my ivermectin. https://covid19criticalcare.com/ I searched under pharmacies and filtered by no prescription required and I ordered from All Med in India allmedkart.com I ordered 100 pills 6 mg. with shipping it was 153.
It broke my lingering mild fever in 12 hours after I took the FLCCC recommended dose for my weight. I was fortunate enough to find a doctor who prescribed it and an independent pharmacy to fill it. However she had me taking 5 pills over an entire day when I should have taken 10 at a time. I didn't figure this out until about 3-4 days after I started taking it.
Same story for my sister and BIL. They also had fluvoxamine, pravastatin and my sister had hydroxy. Sister had a lot of fatigue for a couple weeks. BIL was out playing pickleball within two weeks.
Thank you! I’m glad someone told the truth while cnn and Others right here on substack just flat out claimed ivermectin did not work! What a bunch of crap. So sick of this political bullshit while people die who obviously CAN be helped!!!
Thank you for researching this study and revealing such a major flaw. The conclusion of the study has been getting a lot of promotion by those who have an interest in dismissing Ivermectin as an early treatment for Covid-19.
He also thinks HIV causes AIDS. He's also a pro-abort. He's a lot of things but I'm a big girl and I can decide which of his articles are worth reading.
It appears the best results with ivermectin occur when taken prophylactically or immediately after exposure. Failing that as soon as any type of symptom appear.
Igor, you have to dig into the supplementary data, but if you look at eTable 3, you can find CRP data. Though the difference between treatment and control groups was not significant (p=0.20), as with the vent and mortality data, the trend was in the direction you'd expect if ivermectin had an anti-inflammatory effect. In the IVM arm, baseline CRP was 2.82 and ended at 3.16. While that's an increase, it was less than the control where baseline was 2.76 and increased to 3.65 on Day 5. But look also at the 95% confidence interval. The IVM arm was (-0.19 to 0.86) while the control arm was (0.22 to 1.56). In other words, some of the IVM patients saw a reduction in CRP, but the control arm patients did not (at least at the 95% C.L.). So, tighter confidence interval, lower mean, and negative lower limit indicating a reduction due to IVM. This finding supports the reduced vent and mortality data, since hyperinflammation is the root cause of most COVID deaths.
It is also worth noting that more than half the hospitalized patients in the Malaysia study were fully vaccinated. I am interested in whether Ivermectin and HCQ are less effective against Covid in the fully vaxxed. The results from this study seem to suggest the possibility, but the sample is too small for me to make heads or tails of.
At this point in time, I wouldn’t trust any major/established journals. just like mainstream media outlets, they have been captured. Due diligence is vital. It’s the alternative media such as Igor’s substack and “smaller” journals that are seeking the facts and the truth.
I is think it is likely worth looking at the retracted hydroxychlotinwuine study from that time Trump did his work on ensutimg that treatment was not available . They set up that study to show it was contra indicated for use . And I am suggesting this study was also set up to demonstrate that ivermectin should be contraindicated for use . But it did not do that . It failed to show ivermectin should he listed as contraindicated for the treatment of covid !
It was Dr Rick Bright who personally overruled Pres Trump's request to make HCQ available from our government stockpiles and only allow it to be issued after admission to the hospital.
Thanks for remembering that, so few people do. In the hospital or in a trial, and most of those trials were built to fail. And then some months later, when Bright's EUA was lifted, the media interpreted it utterly backwards on purpose, saying that this was effectively a ban on HCQ, when the truth was that it was being released from the federal stockpile to common access. But the damage was done already, with many states banning its use.
Sure, but it was Trump that was playing the offensive idiot. The game was for Trump to mention like an idiot on national tv and those playing the smart people would point at it . That was the play
I can't agree with your take. If that was the role Trump was playing, then he would have to have been in on the "no off label treatments" game from the beginning, so why even mention the HCQ that day in March ... just 24 hours after Teva Pharm, India etc sent us many tens of millions of HCQ pills?
I also prefer that they, FraudXi, and all the other ghouls who prefer Pig Pfarma $$$ to saving the lives of patients be limited to the "standard of [no] care" treatment they've murdered 100s of thousands with already. That and vex boosters until their arms look like hamburger. In the scheme of things, I feel this is a pretty conservative and measured response to their perfidy. Plus, how can they complain, when it's their dictated "standard of [no] care."
When? How about "since always"? Many of us have long been upset about RCTs built this way for any possibly fatal disease, especially endemic/pandemic ones. You don't need a placebo group. The general public is the placebo group, and they're out there dying already. Test your medicine and see if works. That's all.
Igor, you are joining the greats up there with boriquagato in doing a great job dissecting this information and sharing it with your readers. Maybe Alex "Horse Dewormer" Berenson could learn a thing or 2.
Thanks! I try to make high-effort posts most of the time. Meaning they are not just memes or sentences from study abstracts, but a result of "digging deeply". Occasionally it pays. But a few of my posts are lower effort, just some stuff I found, but I try to not overdo that.
It's a miracle IVM worked at that late stage when antihistamine and steroids are more appropriate. But hey - I'll take it any day, considering risk is almost non-existent.
Alex Berenson, are you reading? Or still too invested in trying to play “gotcha” with Dr. Robert Malone?
Probably too busy counting money from big interests
What big interest?
Thanks Igor. People are too quick to read the summarized conclusion without actually looking at the data. As Dr Kory said, it’s not just about a RCT. It’s also about population studies, clinical observations etc etc that contributes to the overall understanding of management and therapy.
and also is the study big enough to find a statistical difference? It isn't
I have wondered…
LOL. He got roasted on his own substack by his own subscribers after the incident on Fox. Now he threw up this study as "proof" and half his subscribers are telling him to "Go see Igor" LMAO.
Those were my exact thoughts also, thanks for sharing yours. For now, I've unsubscribed Mr Alex. I wish him well. And thanks again for sharing your thoughts Legallady4.
I'll reply on behalf of Alex: blah blah blah you are all Ivermectin loving idiots, here is a weirdly framed screenshot, now go ahead and unsubscribe I have lots of money already from my book.
But, but, but it wasn't about the money!
Berenson is a journalist, not a scientist. It would be unreasonable to expect a journalist to fully understand the science.
Get your medical information from MDs and scientists.
We do get our info from qualified medically skilled scientists. Mr B made broad sweeping declarations implying his view of IVM was a self evident fact?We expect high quality reporting from AB and are questioning his motivation for being so negative re IVM over 1 report he did not properly interpret?
AB has been very negative about Ivermectin for a long time. I keep telling him to debate Dr Kory with Rogan as the moderator. He won't. He knows he'd be out of his league and get crushed.
I've pointed out on a couple of Stacks that have discussed this study that 2/3 of the study pop were vaccinated, and there is no recording of how recent that was in relation to their COVID diagnosis. It's obvious at this point that vaxxing has a huge impact on immune status, so I don't see how this study has any validity with regard to other treatments. But the one thing you could compare is the totally unvaxxed participants. Among those, 1 died in IVM group, 3 in placebo. That's buried in the supplemental tables #6.
Where do you see it, I only see up to table 4? Interesting
So of the vaxxed, then, 2 died in IVM group, 7 in placebo?
That's even better than for the unvaxxed, with not much significance though
It is in Table 1. 14-17% received 1 dose; 51-52% received 2 doses.
Hey, good catch.
I didn't look to see how the IVM group was chosen, but if it was randomized then the vax status shouldn't matter.
Ivermectin worked great for my husband and myself when we got the Delta variant. took it early, still felt crappy, but recovered in a week and no long term issues.
Worked great for my wife too, felt not even so crappy (late 40s), I would say crappy on one evening, no long term anything
I keep a stash on hand for friends and family just in case.
me too
Yeah, I just received 300 ivm tablets. For friends and family. I still use horse paste when I feel a cold coming on, works fine.
can you share where you got the IVM? some places are very expensive. TY
Ivermectin is available OTC in Mexico. Most pharmacies should have it. Ivermectin is available in vending machines in Mexican airports.The Mexican government has been giving out free Ivermectin.
There are no Covid related restrictions to enter Mexico.
https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/097/281/952/original/9feb1451ab55742b.png
I want to share where I bought my ivermectin. https://covid19criticalcare.com/ I searched under pharmacies and filtered by no prescription required and I ordered from All Med in India allmedkart.com I ordered 100 pills 6 mg. with shipping it was 153.
I have noticed that online pharmacies are overcharging for Ivermectin. In Mexico you can get a box of Ivermextin OTC for less than $20.
I just got an email from All Med Kart and they have a 30% off promo code: AMK30 I just tried it and it works.
Indiamart gurubabapharmax
gurubabapharmaxprivatelimited@gmail.com
I have the pills and the horse paste as well. I bought the horse paste when it was really hard to find the pills.
Also here.
Glad your wife is OK!
It broke my lingering mild fever in 12 hours after I took the FLCCC recommended dose for my weight. I was fortunate enough to find a doctor who prescribed it and an independent pharmacy to fill it. However she had me taking 5 pills over an entire day when I should have taken 10 at a time. I didn't figure this out until about 3-4 days after I started taking it.
I was asked by a doctor friend for some tablets.
My experience, too (at 66)...
Took IVM FLCCC Protocol highest dose 0.6/kg for 8 days together with zinc, Vit.D, C and Quercetin (Z-Stack Dr. Zelenko).
After 3 days ok, maybe still a bit tired for a week. Never saw a Dr., am 70 and feeling great.
my wife did 0.3, same result she is late 40s
Same story for my sister and BIL. They also had fluvoxamine, pravastatin and my sister had hydroxy. Sister had a lot of fatigue for a couple weeks. BIL was out playing pickleball within two weeks.
Thank you! I’m glad someone told the truth while cnn and Others right here on substack just flat out claimed ivermectin did not work! What a bunch of crap. So sick of this political bullshit while people die who obviously CAN be helped!!!
Thank you for researching this study and revealing such a major flaw. The conclusion of the study has been getting a lot of promotion by those who have an interest in dismissing Ivermectin as an early treatment for Covid-19.
I wonder if Alex Berenson reads your and Jessica’s substack?
where can i see it
interesting how he cherry picked the outcome to focus on. willful blindness or less than expert analysis.
He also thinks HIV causes AIDS. He's also a pro-abort. He's a lot of things but I'm a big girl and I can decide which of his articles are worth reading.
It appears the best results with ivermectin occur when taken prophylactically or immediately after exposure. Failing that as soon as any type of symptom appear.
Fantastic break down, Igor
Thank you!
Igor, you have to dig into the supplementary data, but if you look at eTable 3, you can find CRP data. Though the difference between treatment and control groups was not significant (p=0.20), as with the vent and mortality data, the trend was in the direction you'd expect if ivermectin had an anti-inflammatory effect. In the IVM arm, baseline CRP was 2.82 and ended at 3.16. While that's an increase, it was less than the control where baseline was 2.76 and increased to 3.65 on Day 5. But look also at the 95% confidence interval. The IVM arm was (-0.19 to 0.86) while the control arm was (0.22 to 1.56). In other words, some of the IVM patients saw a reduction in CRP, but the control arm patients did not (at least at the 95% C.L.). So, tighter confidence interval, lower mean, and negative lower limit indicating a reduction due to IVM. This finding supports the reduced vent and mortality data, since hyperinflammation is the root cause of most COVID deaths.
Great catch, Igor! I spent a good part of the afternoon today looking at this study and did not catch that.
Thanks! I wish I could catch the vaccine ineffectiveness part... Oh well...
It is also worth noting that more than half the hospitalized patients in the Malaysia study were fully vaccinated. I am interested in whether Ivermectin and HCQ are less effective against Covid in the fully vaxxed. The results from this study seem to suggest the possibility, but the sample is too small for me to make heads or tails of.
What you say makes total sense, yes, I saw it too.
If Ivermectin will not help the vaxxed, nothing will.
(but see also Maria Romana's message here)
It's not a vax--it's a vex. Call it what it is. Words matter.
At this point in time, I wouldn’t trust any major/established journals. just like mainstream media outlets, they have been captured. Due diligence is vital. It’s the alternative media such as Igor’s substack and “smaller” journals that are seeking the facts and the truth.
I is think it is likely worth looking at the retracted hydroxychlotinwuine study from that time Trump did his work on ensutimg that treatment was not available . They set up that study to show it was contra indicated for use . And I am suggesting this study was also set up to demonstrate that ivermectin should be contraindicated for use . But it did not do that . It failed to show ivermectin should he listed as contraindicated for the treatment of covid !
I think it’s worth calling it out .
It was Dr Rick Bright who personally overruled Pres Trump's request to make HCQ available from our government stockpiles and only allow it to be issued after admission to the hospital.
Thanks for remembering that, so few people do. In the hospital or in a trial, and most of those trials were built to fail. And then some months later, when Bright's EUA was lifted, the media interpreted it utterly backwards on purpose, saying that this was effectively a ban on HCQ, when the truth was that it was being released from the federal stockpile to common access. But the damage was done already, with many states banning its use.
Sure, but it was Trump that was playing the offensive idiot. The game was for Trump to mention like an idiot on national tv and those playing the smart people would point at it . That was the play
I can't agree with your take. If that was the role Trump was playing, then he would have to have been in on the "no off label treatments" game from the beginning, so why even mention the HCQ that day in March ... just 24 hours after Teva Pharm, India etc sent us many tens of millions of HCQ pills?
The authors and JAMA would prefer to be in the control group.
I also prefer that they, FraudXi, and all the other ghouls who prefer Pig Pfarma $$$ to saving the lives of patients be limited to the "standard of [no] care" treatment they've murdered 100s of thousands with already. That and vex boosters until their arms look like hamburger. In the scheme of things, I feel this is a pretty conservative and measured response to their perfidy. Plus, how can they complain, when it's their dictated "standard of [no] care."
When will it become unethical to conduct a RCT of ivermectin because we know many of those who get the placebo will die?
Just pick MSNBC liberals for the control group, problem solved
😂 anyone who has uttered “horse dewormer” can be in the control
No thanks. I call it horse dewormer, and gladly used it to beat Delta and Omicron.
"pony paste" has a much nicer ring to it. :-)
When? How about "since always"? Many of us have long been upset about RCTs built this way for any possibly fatal disease, especially endemic/pandemic ones. You don't need a placebo group. The general public is the placebo group, and they're out there dying already. Test your medicine and see if works. That's all.
Igor, you are joining the greats up there with boriquagato in doing a great job dissecting this information and sharing it with your readers. Maybe Alex "Horse Dewormer" Berenson could learn a thing or 2.
Thanks! I try to make high-effort posts most of the time. Meaning they are not just memes or sentences from study abstracts, but a result of "digging deeply". Occasionally it pays. But a few of my posts are lower effort, just some stuff I found, but I try to not overdo that.
It's a miracle IVM worked at that late stage when antihistamine and steroids are more appropriate. But hey - I'll take it any day, considering risk is almost non-existent.
Good stuff, Igor'.